Ex-SIG quant trader, friend of the Moontower, fellow Substacker Whirligig Bear and prediction market enjooooyer Andrew Courtney went on the Odds On Open with Ethan Kho.
(Ethan’s pod is totally catching fire with his great guests and interviews. He works hard as hell on this project as well as school so I’m stoked he’s getting such traction).
Not surprisingly, it’s a terrific conversation, but I want to zoom in on an idea that resonated deeply for me and easy to overlook for aspiring traders.
Ethan: You left the firm with I think you said only around 40 or so real professional connections. You said that that was one of the other defining things of being a trader — you’re with the same group of people, obviously making lots of money, but it’s not the place for someone who wants to be wants to have this insane network of a lot of different people. Talk to me a bit about the culture.
Andrew: Let’s frame it as who might this fit or not fit. Let’s contrast it with some other high leverage elite type careers. Say you’re a consultant and you’re meeting C-suite people from all different kinds of clients, you know, and you’re only a year out of college. Or you’re an investment banker and you’re doing deals with all these different firms. You’re gathering this wide network of people, a
lot of different information sources. You are working with many people versus my primary relationships were my co-workers. These were fantastic people but that was the most of my network. When you’re a quant trader, you’re not out there at conferences telling people what you’re doing or networking. You’re not talking to anybody about what you’re doing.
So I had a pretty tight network and and good relationships with a lot of these people, but it’s not it’s not like I can the C-suite or get career advice or something like that. It was much more narrow and concentrated and dense network. So it’s a different type of career definitely.
This is very rarely talked about. But the trader career will not leave you with much of a usable business network if you change careers compared to a more sales-oriented job (I say sales because high leverage careers only fall into 2 camps — being on the road selling/deal-making or being a 99.5 percentile solo-player in front of a computer. And the latter is very much under threat right now).
I am always urging early career traders to take the effort to be outward before they need to. You have to overcompensate for the narrow network. After all, you’re going to make a lot of money, right? Well, you want to have people to invest with or raise money from if you decide to become an entrepreneur one day (if you’re trading for a living, there’s a misfit inside you that probably doesn’t want to be an employee forever).
I was fortunate to be on the trading floor which does expose you to lots of people. That network was critical. It led to my next job after SIG, it created most of my broker connections when I left the floor, and it has helped me connect people with firms. But my network didn’t really ramp until I became far more outward. Reaching out on Twitter to learn, starting this letter, and adopting a more sharing posture in general. There is a zero-sumness in trading that leaks into your mindset. It has its purpose to be sure, but don’t let it creep beyond its usefulness.
One last bit that Andrew alludes to…if you want a lunch break or lunch meetings, trading isn’t for you. You never get your full attention. Want to code or do any deep work without one eye scanning screens? Tough luck. Even your basic needs take a backseat.
I forget which comedian made the joke about the weird life of pro athletes. They are rich and influential. But they still have to chase a ball around.
There is no self-aggrandizing story to tell about trading. You serve money. If you’re not there to pick it up when it presents itself why’d you even come in?